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 The Dog Whisperer

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PostSubject: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:19 pm

What do you guys think about Cesar Millan? I mean I like him, and some of his training methods, but I think he might be a little rough with the dogs? Just wanting you opinions!

Some information on him:

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

Quote :
Cesar Millan has been called a Dr. Phil for dogs, and for good reason. Cesar's amazing rehabilitations of aggressive, scared, lazy, compulsive, and jealous dogs captured the national spotlight when his National Geographic Channel (NGC) series Dog Whisperer premiered in September 2004. Regular viewers soon came to realize it wasn't the dogs but the quirky owners who needed Cesar's help the most. In January 2006, Dog Whisperer returned for a primetime second season with expanded hour-long episodes.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:32 pm

Well, he has some good methods, but I prefer positive training.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:33 pm

Oh my god...

I love him. Literally. I think he is absolutley amazing, he is a wonder with dogs.

He realy understands they way they think, and their body language, and I have to say watching his shows has helped allot. Calm assertive energy. The 'pressure points' on a dog... Wow.

I really admire and look up to him. I support his methods... Although on one episode he used a shock collar *Shudders* but it actualy did seem to work wonders.

TBH, I don't think he is to rough Smile He's just being a pack leader, and its proven to be affective. Although, I'll admit when he holds the dog to the floor it scares me a tad... But I don't hounestly think it hurts the dog Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:42 pm

I love Ceasar Millan and his methods, perhaps there not always the lightest methods but many of these dogs need to be taught using force, some of these dogs are a danger to humans and its a life and death circumstance for these dogs as well.
I think treating a dog as a dog and not as a human is a good method of his.
I watch him whenever i can and I will continue to watch him when his shows stop reruns
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:23 pm

Very good point all. I really like how he lets the dogs know that he is pack leader, and that they are his!! He has a mutual affection for the dogs. He also understands that dogs need exercise!

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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:29 pm

Yep!

Have you seen his center? WOW. He has allot of dogs, all perfect, a doggy swimming pool, tredmills... He's so lucky. All that from doing somthing he loves =3
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:29 pm

yup!!!! I know he has like 50 dogs, I want to work there!!

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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:31 pm

Me to! I wouldn't mind paying to move all the way there, what a lifestyle!
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:48 pm

Sort of like if you and your significant other end up on Dr. Phil's show, if you and your dog end up on the Dog Whisperer - you've got problems. Sure, his methods might not be appropriate for every dog, but he's not working with every dog, he's working with problem dogs. I like that he takes no poop from the dogs or their owners. He has rules not guidelines. Using his techniques have brought Dutch to where she is today - a formerly red-zone dog aggressive dog that now can run on the beach with her pup pals.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:40 pm

I cannot watch him on TV, we do not have any money TV. But, I have seen him at friend's houses, and from what I have seen, I like what I saw. I have read his first book and loved that too!
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:49 pm

yah he has a GSD on the cover of his book!

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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:51 pm

Devils advocate; I very much dislike him and his methods.

The way he goes about with the alpha rolling and everything is just outdated and extremely dangerous for the owners. Everything he does just makes me cringe. ESPECIALLY when he works with shy dogs, I started to cry when he was yanking a poor whippet around that was so scared to death it froze.
Im sure that his methods would be good for aggressive dogs, but people should not use it on their normal dog to teach it. That's just absolutely horrible :/ I find it sad that people will take their new puppy and start alpha rolling it to teach it "submission" and stuff. Ugh.

I'm a HUGE supporter of positive reinforcement training; being a partner with your dog, both working together. No one is the 'leader', no one is the lowest 'pack member'. Dogs can do amazing things when you work with them and become equals.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:18 am

With due respect to Idess, I disagree. All dogs can not be lumped together. In my experience if you have a rescue that is dog aggressive, has spent years in a rescue kennel, has endured multiple rehomings, and is an aloof breed like a GSD... I could click until I developed tendonitis and wave a raw steak in front of Dutch's face and get zero response. She was gonna do what she was gonna do. After she killed the other dog, she would be happy to have a steak.

You place all training methods on a list, with eCollar at the top (for the most difficult cases) and positive training at the bottom (for dogs that require less assertive methods). You have to go the where the individual dog is on that day and use the least assertive training method that gets results and then work down the list from that point.

We never resorted to the alpha roll, which I agree is pretty old school and can be dangerous for the handler if you don't know what you're doing - and 90% of dog owners don't. Instead, when it was quiet at home, I taught Dutch to roll over on her side and then used some calming techniques. When I did this during our first obedience class where she was going nuts because she wanted to get ahold of the other dogs, it worked amazingly well and really took the edge off.

I also started training on a prong collar (because she wasn't an eCollar case) and using Cesar's techniques of breaking the dog's concentration with firm finger touch or foot touch (not kicking). The intent was to begin to form her behavior in the right direction. I used every trick in my training toolbox, a lot of Cesar's stuff, and piles of tasty treats to bring Dutch under control.

And now I'm happy to say Dutch is off the prong and off the choke. We use a martingale for most everything. I do not like harnesses because they often promote pulling, even the easy leader. And even more exciting, I have begun working with a lot more positive training methods because Dutch is now open to that. And this must all be working because now my once highly dog aggressive dog can have off leash play dates.

I totally disagree with your last statement. Leader and pack member are not a one is better than the other thing any more than parent and child is. If you have a group or a family and no one leads, it devolves into chaos. I do not look down on my dog at all, any more than my Mom looked down on us as little kids. I am this pack's benevolent leader. When I say "stay" it is not open for a discussion among equals - just as when my Mom sent me to take out the trash, not open to discussion, penalty for failure to comply. My dog is not shut down, she does amazing things, she surprises me every day, she is a delight to have around, she is better behaved at this point than most people's children, and she is a very happy camper.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:28 pm

Cookie knows that I'm "the boss". She also knows that Treader is her "Omega".
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:45 pm

I agree with Dutch's mom. Like people, dogs have different backgrounds, experiences and personalities and this sometimes requires different approaches. I've had dogs that were so very anxious to learn and to please, as well as those who were working hard to ignore any and all stimuli, and then those that had unfortunate backgrounds to accompany their large size and big teeth - much to my surprise and horror.

I much prefer the gentle treat and clicker methods that work so very well with many dogs, but there have been a couple who required something different in order to get their attention and make everyone's life more pleasant and safer. In today's litigious society (I refer you to the recent story about Rolo, plus another one I just read about this morning ... I'll see if I can find that link.) we have to be very careful that our dogs are trained and not likely to do something that can remotely be perceived as "aggressive."

At my house, I'm the alpha, and my little hounds and my wonderful GSD frequently check (push the envelope a bit) to see if I'm still the leader-of-the-pack. Makes life interesting in a good and amusing way, and continually reminds me that they are living creatures with minds of their own and not warm-blooded stuffed animals.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:13 pm

Here 'tis. Hope it opens for you ... one never knows with newspapers.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/apr/18/johnson-moms-bark-appears-worse-than-dogs-bite/
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:00 pm

Wish that I could have left a comment, but I'm not a member of that site, so...
But here's what I would have put down:
German Shepherds have a herding instinct. That was all that happened here (parto of the herding instinct is to nip heel to make you go faster). The GSD tried to herd those people down the street. It can be stopped with good training. But eutenization for it is rediculous!
German Shepherds are wonderful dogs. I have one, and she is a big sweetheart. GSDs are the untilmate watchdog, let me tell ya.
Yeah, a big high fence is a must with any breed. If a dog can jump it at all, she could get loose and get run over or worse.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:11 am

So here is what I get from a really, really, really badly written story.

Two GSDs, for no apparent reason, hop their owners 4' fence, in full view of the owner and chase down a random woman and her children and nip at them. But on the arrival of said owner, the dogs immediately quiet down. The owner is currently having her property surrounded by a 10' tall fence.

Think about it. Dogs don't play with their owner in their own yard and then suddenly turn around and say "Hey, let's hop the fence." and leave to chase down random people. There is a lot more to this story than we are being told. And these same, out of control dogs who chased down and nipped random people instead of being excited and agitated, suddenly became calm at the mere presence of their owner? The same woman they hopped the fence to run away from? She's installing a 10' fence. Really. In the city of Denver any fence over 6' requires special permits and special approval (I found that with just a few mouse clicks). And 10' is insanely tall for a fence.

Is this an irresponsible owner? Is this the first time the dogs have ever gotten out like this? Is this 4' of chain link and has someone been teasing the dogs at the time when parents and children are generally going to school? Is this fence in good repair? How did she get an overhigh fence permit for a 10' fence so quickly? Nothing about this story adds up and the reporter isn't filling in the details - he phoned this one in.

That being said, no person walking on a public street should have any dog, regardless of herding breed or otherwise come nipping at their heels uninvited. That is the mark of an irresponsible dog owner and no community should stand for it - that's probably why the owner is being sued - and she doesn't really have any defense.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:24 pm

I'd have to agree with that person being an irresponsible owner, Dutch. That's why I said that it could be stopped with proper training.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:36 pm

I understand Smile I totally agree that each dog is different; and I said his methods would probably work with aggressive or very headstrong dogs, but I personally have no experience with that personality, so I don't know what it's like to have a dog like that. But yes, I don't mean to group every dog into one, all dogs need a little different degree in training methods.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:55 pm

Idess, Holy Moly! You've never had the "pleasure" of working with a headstrong dog? Very Happy Want me to find you one? Wink

Cookie my response wasn't directed at you, so I hope you took no offense. It's just so frustrating to see these kind of stories in the news where the reporting is just SO BAD! I finish reading and I have a million questions that aren't even answered in the article.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:37 pm

Haha, my own dog was a rescue from a previously abusive owner, so she was the very opposite of headstrong; my task was to get her out of the corner where she'd cower all the time. XP
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:17 pm

Idess ... we had a Pharoah Hound, just the loveliest creature, and she came from a BYB who were clearly did something to that pretty baby ... she spent a lot of time under the dining room table when we first got her and was quite clearly afraid to come to us. The first time I had her on leash to see what she knew, she heeled in perfect position but in a cringing, crawling, belly touching the grass position ... I just felt terrible. Took awhile to get my beautiful "Tadu" to walk naturally on leash, and she was always absolutely perfect, perfect ... but at what a cost to her.

Prior to the Pharoah, we had a rescued Borzoi, speaking of lovely and elegant. The foster family said they thought she'd been abused by a man. It took her awhile to warm up to my husband, although it was more that she tolerated him near her, not that she actually "warmed up." One day I picked up the broom to sweep potting soil off the kitchen floor (Yep, I make big messes on occasion.) "Winsome" was so frightened of the broom that she went THROUGH the screen on the slider before I even realized what was happening. I never used the broom in her presence again.

Some people are just the most insensitive of animals ... makes you wonder how they were raised. Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: The Dog Whisperer   Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:54 pm

According to my dad, Cookie used to be so afraid of men that she would urinate whenever she saw one. We think that her former "owners" may have abused her.
To this day, if Cookie knows that you are mad and you raise your hand in front of her she'll cringe just a little bit.
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