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PostSubject: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:53 pm

Many of us have very strong feelings about the breeding of Pedigree dogs, crossbreeds and 57s, and the number of accidental pups who need homes, and I know they are all different.


What do you think about dog breeding, I mean obiously we are doing something wrong with all the dogs in shelters?

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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:58 pm

Oh, my favorite kind of subject!
Well, here's an article that I wrote that wraps up my feelings on the matter very nicely:
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Puppy_and_Puppies_Place/thread/461986

Most of the dogs in shelters are either BYB dogs or puppy mill dogs. I can show statistics on this, if you want to see them.

I believe that there is only one right reason to breed:
The keep the breed that you love from going unhealthy.
I also strongly believe that good breeders also support shelters and rescue, although I would buy from one that didn't.

I guess that my desire to one day be a reputable breeder is the reason that my uncle being a BYB upsets me so much.

I think that most good breeders only breed purebreds (because 75% of dogs in shelters are mixed breeds), but I would buy from one that did. Like Sterling Collies. They are an excellent breeder, with an excellent reputation. They've been around since the '50s. They breed Collie mixes for those who can't afford a $500 purebred. And, since I want to breed Collies, I would like to buy a breeding quality dog from them once I can start. I know that they'll have to either really, really, trust me or have me agree to be mentored by them before they'd let me have one of their dogs to breed though.


Last edited by Cookie TN on Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:00 pm

I totally agree, but what is the difference in a BYB and a reputable breeder? They both charge! A reputable breeder I believe has a to be in it for the money some how. How would they put food on the table otherwise? Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:02 pm

Hmm... Well,

I don't think people should just breed for money. And I don't think people should breed to make an un-needed physical change in a breed. I also disagree with breeding 'pet dogs'

I believe all dogs should have enough tests done to see how they are geneticly, and will be able to supply the puppies with what they need.

I have a couple of BYB dogs, and although I love them... One of them has a few bad genetic problems. Due to irrisponsible breeding. It affacts her life quite a bit, and its sad.

I have a few other views, but its late, so i'll post them tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:05 pm

Well, a reputable breeder has a part-time job or a husband or wive that works while they breed. You can't make a living off of breeding dogs if that's all you do, unless you mass-produce like puppy mills do.
A BYB is someone whose dog got pregnant by accident, who believes the myth the dogs need one litter before being spayed ( Rolling Eyes ), who just wants a litter of cute puppies for fun, or they do it as a business. BYBs don't do health testing, don't have contracts that require you to spay/neuter your dog, and generally don't carefully screen buyers.
Breeding is more like an expensive hobby rather than a business.


Last edited by Cookie TN on Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:06 pm

Yes, Cookie.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:14 pm

Cookie's a BYB (or a puppy mill) dog. I was lucky with her. She has had some health problems, but probably which probably have nothing to go with genetics. She gets ear mites very easily, has had a couple of UTI's, and recently she got incontinence, but that's about it.
Dogs are wonderful no matter where they come from, there are just some places that you don't want to support.


Last edited by Cookie TN on Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:15 pm

so Gideons breeder never said he had to b spayed/neutered, does that make her a BYB?

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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:16 pm

I don't know enough about Gideon's breeder to determine that. While some things are necessary that a good breeder should do, others are desirable but not necessary.
I think that not doing a spay/neuter contract does not necessarily mean that she is a bad breeder, by itself.


Last edited by Cookie TN on Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:16 pm

Ah, you where lucky... Unfortuanatly, I got PRA, EPI and CDRM
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:17 pm

No, it dosn't. Is he a show quality dog?
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:19 pm

http://dwamusa.com/

There is his breeder!

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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:21 pm

I'll check out their site
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:22 pm

Looks good to me. That's right, Sharna...I'd forgotten that show-quality dogs don't need to be spayed/neutered.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:25 pm

Well... They defenetly care about their dogs. They say they want to get working dogs into the communtiy... Hmm.

If they didn't specify him as a show dog, or if you/your parents didn't say you where going to show him... They should have given you a contract saying to nueter him?

I don't know... I'm realy tired at the moment xD But, no. Not BYB Wink All is fine Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:32 pm

No he is not show quality, but since he is a great dog, and I know alot about the GSD breed according to the breeder it should be fine she said. And its not like I m not going to get him checked by my vet, defiantely for hips/elbows everything.

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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:34 pm

I love the GS breed and would not want anything to happen because of me, to puppys

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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:35 pm

Yes, thats great ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:41 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:45 pm

Nothing will happen to the breed because of you! Lol... Just remember, GSD has big puppers xP
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:46 pm

Thanks for the link =P
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am

I think good breeders breed for the betterment of the breed. They would test their dogs for TEMPERAMENT (I think this is very important) as well as physical faults (OFA, PennHIP etc). They also try their best to ensure their puppies find loving/caring homes. My Snowy's breeder makes everyone fill out quite detailed "puppy questionnaire" to weed out undesirables (puppy mills and BYBs). It's not 100% proof but I think most of puppies find excellent homes because of it. I know she truly loves her dogs and she would tell everyone who buys her puppies that "if what ever the reason you can not keep her/him, please bring him/her back for a full refund" She's also set up a yahoo group for her puppies' owners for information exchange. I know where Snowy's littermates and her older siglings live, and how they are doing. As far as breeders go - I couldn't have asked for a better breeder.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:14 pm

I have rescued, I have had dogs of mixed parentage, and I've purchased dogs from breeders. My current GSD is a rescue. In a breeder, back-yard or otherwise you should look for:

Titles in confirmation or working titles (not just AKC or CKC registered)
Can explain to you the reason for this particular mating, at this particular time
Health testing
Temperament testing, and breeding for temperament
One or both parents available on site for you to see
Health guarantees
A congenital health defect return policy
100% rehoming guarantee for the life of the dog, if you can't keep the dog
Make their home/kennel available for you to see
A clue about proper socialization
If the kennel has multiple dogs, do they have the staff to properly care for them?
Everything is in writing

Bonus points for any breeder who investigates you with a long interview. A questionairre is great, but there's nothing like a face to face to get a feel for people, or even talking to someone over the phone. People will write down anything. Our breeder asked for several references from people who knew us and our dogs, and from our vet.

Also bonus points for a waiting list and you don't make it up the list to a puppy in the very next litter. That means they probably have a very good reputation, and/or they breed infrequently. Be prepared to wait patiently - it will be worth it.

It's also nice to be able to call other people who have gotten dogs from this breeder, and to ask them how the entire experience was. How problems were handled. If problems arose, did the breeder fulfill their guarantees.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:42 pm

Good post Dutch -
I also add that I like breeders who make their dogs pedigrees available. You can tell what kind of titles their bloodlines have. Also with their AKC registration number, you can look up to see if they have their dogs OFA tested and their results. http://www.offa.org/search.html
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PostSubject: Re: Dog Breeding   Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:48 pm

I found this article by the Humane Society of the United States called "How to find a good dog breeder" Here is an except:

-Keeps dogs in the home as part of the family---not outside
in kennel runs
-Has dogs who appear happy and healthy, are excited
to meet new people, and don’t shy away from visitors
-Shows you where the dogs spend most of their time---
in a clean, well maintained area
-Encourages you to spend time with the puppy’s parents---
at a minimum, the pup’s mother---when you visit
-Only breeds one or two types of dogs and is
knowledgeable about what are called “breed standards”
(the desired characteristics of the breed, such as size,
proportion, coat, color, and temperament)
-Has a strong relationship with a local veterinarian and
shows you records of veterinary visits for the puppies
and explains the puppies’ medical history and what
vaccinations your new puppy will need
-Explains in detail the potential genetic problems
inherent in the breed (every breed has specific genetic
predispositions) and provides documentation---through
organizations such as the Orthopedic Foundation for
Animals (OFA)---that the puppy’s parents and grandparents
have been tested to ensure that they are free of these
genetic problems
-Offers guidance for caring for and training your puppy and
is available for assistance after you take your puppy home
Provides references from other families who have
purchased puppies
-Feeds high quality “premium” brand pet food
-Doesn’t always have puppies available but rather will keep
a list of interested people for the next available litter
-Is actively involved with local, state, and national clubs that
specialize in the specific breed; good breeders may also
compete the dogs in conformation trials (which judge how
closely dogs match their “breed standard”), obedience trials
(which judge how well dogs perform specific sets of
tasks on command), or tracking and agility trials
-Encourages multiple visits and wants your entire family
to meet the puppy
-Provides you with a written contract and health guarantee
and allows plenty of time for you to read it thoroughly;
-the breeder should not require that you use a specific veterinarian
In addition to those criteria, you’ll want a breeder who
requires some things of you, too. The breeder should
require you to:
Explain why you want a dog
Explain who in your family will be responsible for the pup’s
daily care, who will attend training classes, where the
dog will spend most of his or her time, and what
“rules” have been decided upon for the puppy---for
example, whether or not the dog will be
allowed on furniture
Provide a veterinary reference
Provide proof from your landlord or condominium board
(if you rent or live in a condominium complex) that you
are allowed to have a dog
Sign a contract that you will spay or neuter the dog
unless you will be actively involved in showing him
or her (which applies to show-quality dogs only)
Sign a contract stating that you will return the dog
to the breeder should you be unable to keep the
dog at any point in the dog’s life
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